Mum's being switched to a different medication for her blood pressure. Not by her doctor, though, and not for any medical reason. Indeed, the information she got at the pharmacy made it seem like it's the same medication only in heavier dose — only a careful comparison with the old box revealed the difference in active ingredient (from Perindopril Erbumine to Perindopril Arginine). The name change — and the change as explained in the leaflet — was from "Coversyl 8mg" to "Coversyl 10mg".
Why?
Well, apparently the patent on the old medicine was running out in a couple of months. By changing the formulation, the pharmaceutical company gets another 15 years. Evergreening, this is apparently called. There is an official benefit to the new formulation, but it's phrased so contingently ('potentially … longer expiry date') that it would seem to be limited if it exists at all.
So here's mum being forced onto a new medicine for no reason better than corporate greed.
Of course, the whole system of medicine patents suffers from one logical flaw: developing new medicines is important, but hardly the only area of medical research. How are the other areas financed? Either they are financed well enough, in which case the same mechanism can be used to finance development of new medicines; or they are not financed well, which is a real problem that needs to be solved urgently. In neither case are medicine patents of any real use to society.
⇦ Strip Uno | ⇨ Link: Copyright law in verse |
2 February 2007, 3:13 UTCcomment by Sue
Hi - I am a patient using this drug too. I wondered if your Mum was having any adverse affects? I am also on the 10mg. I am having headaches since the changeover. Interesting and very plausible view you have put forward also.
Regards, Sue.
20 April 2007, 20:15 UTCcomment by Kay
Hi, I had been on Coversyl 8mg for a few years with no ill effects. However, after switching to the Coversyl 10 mg, my Liver enzyme results went through the roof. I am not talking a little, I am talking of readings that were elevated of more that 100-200 above what they had been. After investigating to see what was causing it, there was a direct correaltion between when switching to the Coversyl 10mg and the elevation in readings. The reverse happened when I was changed off the Coversyl 10mg. It was discovered I was sensitive to the changed active ingredient 'Arginine'. So much for being told the 10 mg was exactly the same as the 8mg!!!!
27 July 2007, 8:05 UTCcomment by JT
Are you all aware that Arginine is inactive? It cant actually cause anything and is excreted unchanged? The TGA is very strict and demanded the toughest guidlines before the drug came out. I got switched from 8mg to 10mg and if you look closly the only think that has changed is the packet, also the generic is out so wheres the evergreening oh and the company is a foundation and now donates 100% of its turnover to charities and communities and also research. In case your wondering i work for a GP and get to read all the boring papers left bheind.
27 July 2007, 9:11 UTCcomment by sabik
@JT: I find that very hard to believe.
Firstly, the question isn't about Arginine, but about the difference between the two salts of Perindopril, Perindopril Erbumine and Perindopril Arginine. Salts generally have very different properties to their constituents.
Secondly, Arginine itself a semi-essential nutrient. Quite far from being excreted unchanged.
Thirdly, I find your characterisation of Servier inaccurate.
Finally, your poor orthography combined with a plaintive appeal to dubious authority isn't doing anything to aid your credibility.
22 October 2007, 14:27 UTCcomment by Aching
I was switched to the new formulation and suffered facial flushing, going bright red within several hours of taking the 5mg tablet each morning and having to cool my face with water to ease it. I put in an adverse reaction report to the TGA in Aust. Arginine is a vasodilator, not an inactive substance.
I am in my early 50's but I experienced constant shoulder myalgia and calf muscle cramps on the original Coversyl and now on the new formulation I currently have acute inflammatory arthritis of the hands, hips, knees and feet for which I am being tested and treated. I intend to change to the original formulation as soon as I can obtain it or will probably cease Coversyl.
13 December 2007, 11:46 UTCcomment by maureen
I have submitted an adverse reaction report to ADRAC and to Servier over the reformulated Coversyl. My 90yo mother experienced extreme and disabling vertigo every day she was on the new 5mg formulation. I insisted she be changed back to a generic with the 4mg erbumine salt: the vertigo gradually faded away, over a period of 5 days before she was completely free of any dizziness and woke up "feeling normal." Subsequently she has had no vertigo except for one day when she missed taking her tablet (I found it on the floor next day). About a month later she saw a specialist who decided to swap her to Atacand so the experiment will not be repeated, but watch out and let us know if dizziness is a result, and hip fractures as a result of the vertigo would be likely. Her GP initially thought this was just another symptom of old age. All ingredients are of significance, not just those the company claims to be the therapeutic ones.
21 February 2008, 10:36 UTCcomment by Aching
I have stopped the reformulated Coversyl, changing to Perindo which is now available. It has the same formulation as the original Coversyl: perindopril erbumine, not perindopril arginine. I heard from the pharmacist that Perindo was now available, but requires a replacement prescription. After a year of constant pain, within 4 days the severe myalgia stopped. And I'm not stiff and sore when I wake in the morning now. If anyone else is being crippled by muscle pain while on Coversyl, it may be a side effect.
17 March 2008, 10:11 UTCcomment by pain
I was swithched from 5mg coversyl to 10mg and I have experienced abdominal pain since {2 months}
My doctor is running tests and disreguards that
it could be a side effect. Though it is a big co-incidence. Any comments?
14 May 2008, 2:27 UTCcomment by paul
I have not taken the 'new' (arginine) formulation of Coversyl as I have a backlog of filled scripts (some are now of the 'new 'formulation), but the latest supplies, in response to a script. for Coversyl, have been changed by my pharmacist to GenRx Perindopril-4ml. perindopril erbumine. Just luck I suppose, or a wide awake pharmacist!!
17 August 2008, 5:32 UTCcomment by lance
I am 76Years of age and my doctor put me on coversyl-10 about 5 months ago, I now have a heart that is intermittent and up until coversyl had a very strong heart. I feel like I have been put through the wringer and I am about to give it the flick and go on alternative medicine. I think that the Pharmaceuticals Suck.
25 October 2008, 6:03 UTCcomment by xmrjeep
I had been on the original Coversyl for 4 years. After one prescription I started to suffer muscle pain in my upper thighs, an inspection of the box revealed I had been prescribed generic Perindopril not the original,a very clever copy of the old box was the culprit. I changed back immediatley and the problem disappeared. Since then I was given the new Arginine salt, within a month the side effects returned and are getting worse in addition I am experiencing muscle pain at the back of my neck.
I am being changed to an entirely different ACE inhibitor despite the fact my GP believes they are the same product.
I have been conned for the convenience of the drug companies!
15 November 2008, 0:04 UTCcomment by Chris
i have been on coversyl 5 mg to control kidney function (bergers disease) but have since switched to 10 mg Arginine due decreasing kidney function resulting from hypertension. i also had a few side effects constant dry cough and nausea and sudden severe cramping in the thighs and calves, believed that this was something that i would have to live with. id like to hear from younger people, i am 29, who have the same problem and what sort of results they have had from using this drug.
25 November 2008, 13:14 UTCcomment by Hendrik
My GP prescribed Conversyl 10mg recently. I have suffered from severe maylgia over the last two weeks, to such an extent that I have been unable to sleep for a few nights. My doctor told me today to staop taking the tablets. Hopefully the pain will go away soon.
9 January 2009, 3:54 UTCcomment by KChin
My nephrologist put me on 2mg Coversyl daily for the last 6 years to protect my kidneys since I have micro hematuria, but I do not have hypertension. I have now developed Oral Lichen Planus. I wonder if Coversly is the cause of this problem.
23 April 2009, 3:15 UTCcomment by Tyna
My mother is 82 and has been on coversyl for many years. Having recently moved to an aged care facility, the visiting doctor prescribed GX Perindopril/Indapamide instead. She has suffered swollen, painful feet for the first time in her life. It was just luck that I realised the two were linked. It really peeves me that the change was done due to a cheaper generic version of the original. Surely there is no need to do this, especially when the government subsidises the correct medication anyway. Just another area where the elderly are disrespected in my view. She was not even given a choice. Getting old sucks, as I can see it....
Thanks for everyones comments on this site, it made me realise that I wasnt just imagining the link.
27 April 2009, 1:38 UTCcomment by kirsten
I have been on Coverysl 5mg the Perindopril Arginine one for about 1 year and am having increasing neck, shoulder pain, and it feels like it is slowly moving down my back. Does this sound familiar to anyone? NOt that Ive had arthritis before , but I imagine this might be how it feels. If you change medication do the pains go Away?
11 May 2009, 3:16 UTCcomment by Carole
All these comments have been very interesting. I began on Coversyl 2.5mg graduating to 10mgm in mid 2008. However since last December I have been getting increased fuzzy headedness bordering on vertigo and have eliminated every other medication so wondering it it is caused by Coversyl. I now suffer every and all day. I take it for high BP caused by a medical condition which will be alleviated by an upcoming operation. BP is now great and I need to keep it that way until op later in year but can't keep on with the fuzziness. Any ideas?
11 May 2009, 7:21 UTCcomment by sabik
If you have concerns about a medicine you're taking or its side-effects, talk to your physician (preferably the one who prescribed it, in the first instance).
17 May 2009, 22:34 UTCcomment by Ian
I was on Coversyl 5 mg for 12 months without any side effects. About 3 months ago on a routine doctors visit it was discovered my BP was still very high and the doctor increased my doesage to 10 mg. I purchased my own BP machine and now monitor my BP each morning and night. At first my BP went back to 135/80 but over the last 2 months gradually continued to rise until it was around 175/95. I went back to the doctor who has now put me on Norvasc with my 10mg of Coversyl. Since taken this I feel very light headed. I was just wondering if anyone else out there also has to take 2 drugs to keep their BP down.
25 May 2009, 4:33 UTCcomment by Shaun
I take Coversyl 5mg and have done for about 18 months.
Can anyone tell me what long term side effects this drug has.
Does it prolong life or shorten it!
8 July 2009, 3:16 UTCcomment by Tom
Wow, I wondered where all the hypochondriac patients with a loose grip on logic and reality hang out, now I know.
Do any of you know what bioequivalaence means?
14 July 2009, 1:31 UTCcomment by Sandra
As I understand it, most people are given 2 types of medication for high blood pressure, not just one. However, I can't take 2 because the side-effects from just the Coversyl 10 that I take are more than enough. Why is high blood pressure so hard to treat? I am against drugs that make you feel worse than before you started the treatment.
20 July 2009, 6:37 UTCcomment by kirsten
To follow on from my previous entry, I have now changed from Coversyl 5mg to Atacand 16mg. My B/P is great and all my aches and pains have gone, I no longer need pain relief. So I would say it was from the Coversyl. Hope that info helps someone else.(P.S. I dont have any noticeable side effects from the Atacand).
2 August 2009, 13:24 UTCcomment by sabik
@Sandra, if you have concerns about a medicine you're taking or its side-effects, talk to your physician (preferably the one who prescribed it, in the first instance).
2 August 2009, 13:36 UTCcomment by sabik
@Tom, bioequivalence is a nice concept, but proving it generally entails proving a negative (no significant difference) and proving a negative is generally difficult. Rare side-effects are rare and therefore will not show up (or be measured) in a study. In addition, even for the outcomes that are measured, the regulator allows some degree of difference.
It is also, in the case mentioned here, needless; and there's an old saying about not messing about with things that work.
Finally, I would ask you to avoid ad hominem arguments and personal attacks on my blog.
12 October 2009, 21:00 UTCcomment by kelsey
I work in pharmacy, i would just like to put it out there that there is ALOT of information out there for people on generic medication, and alot of information on brand price premium drugs. The only reason genrx or apotex drugs are cheaper is that the original makers of the drug need to earn back the money they spent developing the drug. they have around twenty years of a patent and during this time, the drugs can be priced high due as no one is able to copy it. After this the companies usually have a price premium. its just like buying a cotton shirt, why would you spend 60 dollars on a shirt that says wrangler or billabong when you can buy the same thing for 10 dollars at target. i dont understand. and people, in all generic medication leaflets information sheets etc. it is ALWAYS stated that the inactive ingredients may differ, if your worried about a reaction, get your GP to check these out. the active ingredients MUST have the same effect work in the same way with in the same amount of time. dont complain. if you can get on this site. you can google this stuff. im pretty sure doctors and pharmacists didnt spend 5 or 7 years studing just for a piece of paper.
19 October 2009, 9:18 UTCcomment by sabik
@kelsey, wait, what?
Perindopril Erbumine and Perindopril Arginine are not equivalents; they're different active ingredients. At the time of the original switch, they were both covered by patents, and therefore no generics were available. The manufacturer discontinued P.Erbumine (which had some months left on the patent) to force people to switch to P.Arginine (newly patented). To add confusion, they used the same brand name for both.
Generics are now available for P.Erbumine; however, having once switched to P.Arginine, people may be reluctant to switch again, or simply not think to ask their doctor for it (the pharmacy can't do it — different active ingredient).
8 December 2009, 4:11 UTCcomment by chookybo
My 65 year old husband was put on Coversyl 5mg in 2007. He was then changed to Coversyl 10mg. Both have always been Perindopril Arginine. He did develope a bit of a rash which he thought was a fungus. This went away after discontinuing the Coversyl, but that might be coincidental as he was treating the rash. After some time he was changed to Avapro 300mgs. He recently commenced on Avapro 300mgs in the morning and Coversyl 2.5mg nocte. Now he has developed severe psoriasis all over his body. Do any of you know whether there is any connection?
After reading all your comments, I wonder whether the Coversyl could possible be connected with the psoriasis as he has never had it previously to his knowledge.
16 December 2009, 23:43 UTCcomment by Scotty
My cardiologist put me on coversyl plus 5mg (mornings) and 'Physiotens' 400ug at night. My BP readings dropped but didn't get to my gaol of 139/75. So I - yes I - added to the coversyl plus 5mg, an extra 5mg of standard coversyl making my potion 'Coversyl plus 10mg'. My BP is now right but I'm now informed that elderly people (I'm 69) are at risk taking a high dose of coversyl. Buggered if I know. Any suggestions?
17 December 2009, 0:58 UTCcomment by sabik
@Scotty, if you have concerns about a medicine you're taking or its side-effects, talk to your physician (preferably the one who prescribed it, in the first instance).
17 December 2009, 7:06 UTCcomment by Scotty
Thanks sabik for your reply. I did see a local GP today & he said my 'cocktail' was quite ok, but he wants me to have regular blood tests to monitor my kidney function & levels of electrolytes such as potassium, sodium & calcium in the blood. I will start that this week & then every 6 months. Makes good sense doesn't it. Incidentally the reason I did the juggle to coversyl plus 10mg is because the manuf SERVIER does not make a 10mg plus tablet, only a 5mg plus. Strange isn't it?
24 January 2010, 5:30 UTCcomment by mal
Does anyone have any information if Coversyl can cause tremors? I have recently been taken off coversyl 10mg and the tremors seem to be reducing. Any connection?
29 January 2010, 6:23 UTCcomment by sabik
@mal, if you have concerns about a medicine you've been taking or its side-effects, talk to your physician (preferably the one who prescribed it, in the first instance).
13 March 2010, 11:08 UTCcomment by heather
i have just started 2.5mg coversyl with avapro 150/12.5 daily,aftr 4 days have ongoing diahorea and stomach cramps,leg and back pain.i have been on medication for 14 yrs,since last may when my bp went up again i have trialled a total of about 16 different drugs,if they work they dont for long,or side effects are to much for me,i have just come off adefin as it was a slow release drug thar worked well,but the constipation was to much and caused heamaroids,which are pretyy miserable to live with.will monitor my symptons.
13 March 2010, 14:24 UTCcomment by sabik
@heather, if you have concerns about a medicine you're taking or its side-effects, talk to your physician (preferably the one who prescribed it, in the first instance).
3 May 2010, 4:45 UTCcomment by erborarg
I was taking 10mg coversyl and notice I would get occasional rashes on my face and fingers when I went on generic perindropil erbumine it went away (my pharmacist gave me this as it was a cheaper alternative) then when I went to a different pharmacy later on they didnt have erbumine so I went back to coversyl and rashes came back - so while they are both diff salts I definately think I have reactions to the arginine form.
3 May 2010, 12:51 UTCcomment by Cherry
I started noticing muscle aches, tingling in legs, mild tremors after taking the new coversyl 10mg but didn't make the connection as I had never had a problem with it previously. However my symptoms have become worse with painful swelling in wrists,knees,ankles with numerous blood tests and xrays proving inconclusive to any particular medical conditions. I stumbled upon this site when looking for side effects information on Coversyl 10mg [the information leafet does not come with the tablet package any more] and couldn't believe what I was reading. My G.P and Specialist certainly listened as I queried whether Coversyl Arginine could be the problem and we are going to change back and see if that makes a difference. Fingers crossed and I will keep you posted Sabik.
4 July 2010, 10:24 UTCcomment by Dani
I am a pharmacist and have been through the whole change of Perindopril erbutamine (coversyl 2,4,8mg) to perindopril arginine (coversyl 2.5,5,10mg), and the introduction of perindopril erbutamine generics. To clarify, Coversyl was reaching the end of it's patent, so the company (Servier) brought out a new salt form, perindopril arginine, which allowed it to start a new patent. other generic drug companies were able to make generic brands of the original coversyl when this happened. it was all very messy, complicated and annoying. It was all a matter of Serview trying to maintain their market share. i have heard no adverse effects from either salt form, and the only complaint I have heard is people hate the packaging of the new coversyl.
Servier have now done it again with Diamicron 30mg. This diabetes medication was reaching the end of it's patent this year, and in order to make things difficult for everybody, they have discontinued the 30mg, and brought out a replacement 60mg, which is a new patented molecule, but which Servier also claims to be the same as the 30mg but you only need to use half the amount (eg if you were taking 1 tablet of the 30mg, you only need to take 0.5 tablet of the 60mg). Many generic companies have now brought out their own 30mg versions but are not allowed to bring out a 60mg. This has caused confusion with doctors, pharmacist and patients alike. To minimise confusion, I simply tell patients with a script for the 30mg that Diamicron brand is no longer made, and only the generic is available. Most people are happy with this conversion and there's been no complaints. i can imagine Servier is unhappy with this tactic as they have sent us numerous marketing leaflets telling us to ask the doctor to write a new prescription for the patient for the 60mg tablet.
The purpose of generic medications is to maintain the sustainability of a health care system and to minimise the cost of medications for the government and the consumer. the real culprits of the health care system are the originator brand companies who try to confuse the consumer with their creative tactics to make more and more money.
24 October 2010, 0:07 UTCcomment by jag
i had a heart atack 1982 was put on coversyl 4mg i have had no side a facts
untill 2 years ago when thy made the change i blacked out ect ect
i was told thy were the same as the ones i was taken the i was told to take half this still made my head light then thy told me to stop them i was ok after that untill 7 months ago i was going overseas my doc said my BP was high and he gave coversyl BP tables to take and he still said thy were still the same and i blacked out again
then i read about the coversyl switch my doc did not want to know but i got him to give me
perindo 4 mg and i am ok
i think the drug companies should be made to pay
4 December 2010, 12:27 UTCcomment by Tez
My doctor told me I had to take coversyl for the rest of my life
I told him I would try dieting and stop taking it for a two week trialas coversyl was giving me muscle pain and cough.
I started having oatmeal porridge every morning cut right down on meatand sugar , before the two weeks was up my bp was 120/80. I have since lost 10kg in 8 weeks.
6 December 2010, 1:36 UTCcomment by Bev
Hi all, firstly to be prescribed any medicine you must see a doctor and for all first fill of prescriptions you should be given a leaflet explaining side effects etc (a good gp will also tell you the dangerous ones to watch out for). This leaflet also tells you to seek medical advice if you have any concerns regarding its use, it does not say look on the internet, so i would hope all are here after revisiting a doctor and telling him of your concerns as I am. Although as these are not adverse reactions they probably wont be reported but hopefully will make all parties aware of ALL the symptoms that point to a reaction.
My experience, prescribed coversyl 5mg - pharmacist told me to monitor bp. Monitored bp, never went down at all actually got higher over 4 days then started getting burning feeling over cheeks and nose along with lots of flutters and general feeling of being very unwell, pain in shoulder and arms, went back to gp given atacand 16 - told to go to hospital if i had chest pain or difficulty breathing (dohh she was a goodun!). That evening had to go to ed as was feeling much much worse bp really ill, pounding heart and very shaky. Monitored for 2 hours, heart ecg normal bp eventually went down a little bit. Doctor there said likely to be reaction although the symptoms did not fit recorded coversyl reactions or disease profile however was likely to be reaction- coversyl was cheaper for a long term situation (government pbs in aus), but was also more likely to have a reaction. I am very hopeful atacand will have me feeling my old self within a week. I only took 5 coversyl tablets and when i was getting worse not better i sought medical advice I urge all you to do the same, if only to prevent some poor person going through what we did money is not everything mr government health decision maker.
20 December 2010, 20:09 UTCcomment by Big Ronny
I started on 8mg of Coversyl in 2007 and started taking 30mg of Adalat to control my Stage 3 Severe Hypertension (250/190+)and I have noticed an irregular heart beat and severe sensitivity to salt and sodium substitutes shortly after getting prescribed Hydrochlorothiazide in 2010. I can maintain a healthy 130/85 BP all day long, but I do also start to notice a general feeling of "un-wellness" and twitchy muscles at night. So far so good after 3+ years with only 1 ER stay (generic 60mg Adalat really is dangerous and a GP that thought it was a "good idea") but I am being monitored for Liver, Kidney and Heart enzymes and LDL/HDL levels.
25 December 2010, 6:40 UTCcomment by Norman Russell
I was on coversyl for a number of years as they told me I had high blood pressure.? 160/90 I got used to the cough. I used to swim every day and I was pretty fit then they put me on statins for 12 months. I could hardly walk my arthritis got worse and worse. I stopped taking statins because my wife said all m bones were poking out I regain my stregth back but it took 18 months or so. For my age I was pretty dumb I believed doctors knew what they werfe doing. By the time I reached 75 I was still taking coversyl .I passed out one morning in the local swimming pool. Cant rememebr much but my son pulled me out. In hospital my blood pressure became reasonable 130/70 They recomended thatI tke half the dose of coversyl. Two weeks later in an aircraft I startedto run short of air. Everyone paniicked put me in heart hospital for a week. Could find nothing wrong. I started fellingdizzy Doctor sent me to a specialist Gave me every conceiveavle test they could find. Nothing wrong. So specialist was determined and suggested that I have a heart pacer. Against his advice I stopped taking coversyl altogether. Started on CoQ10 and vit d. My blood pressure is now 120/65 I have written letters to the specialist but he does not answer. I finally worked out why my BP was up . When I went to the doctor it was always up. Time for recall 8 years old tied to bed in hospital while they dripped chloreform thru a sieve on my nose. I fought them
but lost. After I had no tonsils. No wonder I had high blood pressure when I went to the doctor. Buy yourself and BP machine and giv e up all medication and start using the internet and find out when natural medications are good for you. Hoping to go to at least 97. All MD should do a course in natural medicine before they resort to chemicals that may keep you alive but make life a misery.
25 December 2010, 8:39 UTCcomment by sabik
@Norman, while I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience, on the balance modern medicine is still your best bet for good health. For that matter, it's not like CoQ10 and Vitamin D are particularly "natural". If you have concerns about a medicine you've been taking or its side-effects, talk to your physician (preferably the one who prescribed it, in the first instance).
21 February 2011, 23:50 UTCcomment by maria
I recently had a small heart attack. Cardiologist doesn't know why (my heart is good with no blockages) He said it might have been a small blood clot or a spasm. He put me on Coversyl 2.5 as well as metropolol 50mg and asprin and Plavix "just in case." I now have a constant feeling of tightness in my chest and feel I am not breathing as deeply as I would like. I have never had athsma, but imagine this might be how it would feel. I also have a feeling of having swallowed something which got stuck in my throat. My GP has agreed to try and see if it is any of the drugs I'm taking. We thought it might be the metropolol as I have had a bad reaction to beta blockers in the past, so he weaned me off it, but I still get the chest tightness. At the moment I'm only taking the Coversy. Has anyone had this experience? I am angry that the drug companies no longer include information of side effects in the packaging. You have to go to their web sites to get it and how many elderly people are computer literate? I was given the drugs with no instructions from the doctor or the phamacist. It's a shame that the old "Chemist" shops have become defacto supermarkets with no personal service.
23 April 2011, 13:55 UTCcomment by sandra
I'm on Coversyl and have been experiencing leg cramps. I just happened on this site in looking up leg cramps. Thank you all. I have had other things wrong with me, such as arthritis in my shoulder, hip and knees. I have also had a hard time sleeping at night and a cough. I never linked them and figured they were just age (57). Based on what I read here, I'm making an appointment with my doctor to discuss all of them. Sabik, you say to see your doctor if you have a problem with a medication, but I hadn't even thought anything other than the leg cramps might have been related. So thanks for the forum to discover the other just "might" be. I will see my doctor now. I probably wouldn't have before.
19 May 2011, 13:34 UTCcomment by Susie
Sabik,I took a prescription for Coversyl 10mg to my pharmacy today and was offered the generic Perindopril 8mg as an alternative for less than half the price. Obviously the pharmacists can do this. The difference was explained to me over the counter but I wanted to check this for myself on the net. The medication is for my husband and he is happy to take the generic brand.
26 June 2011, 5:35 UTCcomment by Paul
Sabik, I too have been confused by the changeover in salts, however this site has helped me understand the process. Today my pharmacist asked if I wanted the generic (or I think she said "cheaper" brand" implying no difference in effectivenes). So I went from Coversil 2.5 (arginine) to Perindo 2 mg (erbumine salt) and a lot cheaper to boot. My packet is made (or marketed more likely) by Alphapharm - the packet says made in France or Ireland (big help!). I haven't to my knowledge suffered any side affects from the arginine version.
17 July 2011, 4:34 UTCcomment by annie
I am on Coversil 2.5 (arginine) added to Zanidip 10mg and after a month my BP is going up and not down. Back to my GP!! All my muscles hurt and I feel really tired. Previously for about 10 years I was on Micardis (Telmisartan 40mg) and my BP was controlled beautifully BUT..after bout of severe food poisoning I stopped all my medications. Got better but decided to try life without the Micardis and just got better and better. Felt so good I couldn't believe how horrible I had felt while on the medication. Also I was being treated for severe leg cramps and for about 9 years have been on Quinine for this. The cramps were intensifying to the point of being a major health problem until I stopped the Micardis. No more cramps. Found leg cramps listed as a side effect for Micardis but my GP didn't know of that connection, neither did the Chemist. I have tried diuretics and they give me cramps as well so now on the Coversil and Zanidip, but feel like crap again. Sabik this is a good blog but there should be a lot more research done to find medications that treat hypertension without all these horrific side effects.
22 July 2011, 12:31 UTCcomment by Christine
Now I'm really confused. I took my first script for Coversyl 10mg to the chemist today and got the choice of an Australian cheaper brand equivalent. This turned out to be Perindo 8mg which contains 8mg perindopril erbumine. The chemist label states that this is the same as Coversyl 10mg which was prescribed. Is it the same? When chemists or pharmacy assistants suggest equivalent brands, do they have an intimate knowledge of the pharmaceuticals or is it driven by money? I worry about such things because it's my body and I'm the one that will suffer any consequences.
24 July 2011, 3:29 UTCcomment by sabik
@Christine, if you have concerns about a medicine you're taking or its side-effects, talk to your physician (preferably the one who prescribed it, in the first instance).
Apart from that, the comments above about "bioequivalence" probably about sum up the situation.
14 August 2011, 12:16 UTCcomment by josie foster
I havebeen taking coversyl plus Hd for one week.8mg with 2.5 mg After abour two hours my Blood Pressure drops to 75 on 32 and pulse rate drops to 34
for the next two hours I cannot function I cannot stand because of muscle weakness iam dizzy and my balance is badly effected I am extremely fatiqued. the doctor also put me on 5mg amlodipine and 5mg bisoprolol. During the last year since having a stent inserted into the right anterior descending artery my health has declined so much that I wonder if I stopped taking these drugs I would feel better. I will complete my year on plavix on december 2nd this year Your comments would be appreciated Josie
16 August 2011, 13:14 UTCcomment by Kathy
My doctor has prescribed coversyl 2.5mg cause i have protein in my kidney.my BP is always low, i'm also on diaformin for type 2 diabetes. from what all the comments say coversyl is for high BP. its sounds like i shouldn't of been given this medication, any comments would be much appreciated, i have a lot of problems with allergies to tablets as well.
2 September 2011, 2:52 UTCcomment by Robin
The information on the website www.servier.com.au lists a number of possible more common known side effects - and warnings about advising your doctor if you have other conditions e.g. diabetes, kidney disease, liver disease, heart disease, pregnancy, sensitivities (insect bites, medications etc). Do not assume that your doctor is aware of or remembers these things about you - remind him/her. Some people can control their blood pressure through diet, exercise, meditation or relaxation - but many cannot. High blood pressure can cause serious problems e.g. kidney damage, strokes, other cardio vascular problems - so it is sometimes advised to take medications as a preventative. There can be unexpected reactions between medications, foods - or in different individuals. Each person is different - so it is vitally important that you discuss your health, diet (and medications) with your GP or specialist if you have any concerns. It may be necessary to try different medications or doses until you get the correct treatment for you. Over time, it may be necessary to adjust the medication(s) and doses. If you are not happy with the response you get from your doctor, you have the right to ask for a referral to a specialist - or to seek out a second opinion.
2 September 2011, 3:17 UTCcomment by sabik
@Josie and @Kathy, if you have concerns about a medicine you're taking or its side-effects, talk to your physician (preferably the one who prescribed it, in the first instance). What @Robin said, basically.
2 September 2011, 3:31 UTCcomment by Robin
Take a look at www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100000619.html. It has much more information about this medication - and the changes to it.
[Edited by sabik to correct the URL and make it a link.]
23 October 2011, 8:12 UTCcomment by kerry
I have been taking the cheaper generic brand of coversyl. After reading some of the side effects others have noted I too have suffered some irregular hearbeat . However as with many medications we take we shall never know the full extent to our health that it may be causing. I was employed years ago working with the elderly and often asked what medication the persons were on . I often encouraged them to look on the internet for published side effects stories such as I have just read. For two years I was advising them to look on the net about the drug Viox which was banned 2 years prior in America and class action was being taken against the drug company however Australian medicine powers to be still allowed it to be administered for 2 years after the event. Unfortunetely when a person dies of a heart atack etc no research is done on the medications they may have taken for years which are supposed to prolonging our lives. At the end of the day drug companies are ruled by the almighty profit margin and also very sly how they can rubbish health foods and vitamins etc. Mainly because alot of their profit margins are being lost to persons seeking natural alternatives. The drug companies cannot patent natural products but have been guilty at times of adding a chemical to a natural product so they can produce it. In these times when we live with modern medicine we must question why countries that dont have it are healthier and suffer far less chronic life threatening problems with their bodies. Does it not make you question who is controlling what and how much is the almighty dollar ruling drug companies and some doctors who get incentives from the companies eg promotional kick backs. We need to question more than what we do.
23 October 2011, 8:36 UTCcomment by kerry
PS in Denmark recently they banned Vegemite.. Reason being it contained too many vitamins which may damage health. Some counties are banned from growing their own herbs in their back yards. Where did this originate from. It has benn confirmed that drug companies are losing billions to persons seeking natural alternatives and vitamins. Blackmoores Health supplies was bought out by a Drug company. What is the verdict if you start losing money buy out one of the companies you are losing money to and make up some of the losses. We certainly need to question more than what we do. Unfortunetley Doctors have only a minor knowledge of vitamins and minerals covered in their training which is the fuel for healthy cells and longevity our bodies need otherwise we may suffer chronic ill health. Medicine does not cure but treats symptoms.
2 December 2011, 8:25 UTCcomment by Ben
Have been taking Coversyl 5mg for IgAN for about 4 months. First noticed night cramps in calves which not experienced since days competitive swimming 30 years ago ( now aged 50). Developed dry cough after about 3 months and found it difficult to put up with - especially at nights. Have tried taking a iron tablet with Coversyl which has reduced coughing bouts but still present. raised this with kidney specialist who conceded 30 per cent of Coversyl patients experience side effects - some so severe they stoping taking the drug. She has now proscribed Avapro as replacement - more modern drug - will be interesting to see how it goes.
25 December 2011, 7:18 UTCcomment by Relf
Suggest you all check out movies "Making Of Madness" also "Burzynski The Movie"
26 January 2012, 23:03 UTCcomment by Sam Son
Interesting the questions and answers posed. I'm convinced that one's temperament has a lot to do with one BP unless he has a pathological condition. I've been on 4mg P-E Coversyl Plus with a diurtic component for years and progressing it weakens my muscles too - cramping and such. I'm monitored annually via blood work to rule out side effects. My diet has been exemplary (veg, fruit, nuts and grains as staple, but my blood sugar and cholesterol level must be monitored.
Question: Can I wean out the use of the pill? How, procedure-wise? I'll continue to monitor my pressure of course, in case. My wife was on estrogen which put her through hell. Her physician said she had to have HRT for life, but she weaned it off. Now she is great and normal again for years, no headches, pains, cramps, swellings. I'm 76.
27 January 2012, 21:58 UTCcomment by Don
I have been on 4mg coversyl for a month and admitted myself to hospital the other night feeling my heart would burst through my chest. The ER doctor took me off the meds immediately saying I reacted to something in the medication. My GP put me on the meds as my BP was 150/93. ER doc was shocked I wasn't told to lifestyle change it first. Now that I am off them, can I expect any withdrawal symptoms although I was only on it for a month? Sleeping on this medication was brutal(nightmares) and I felt better before having high BP. I have since brought it down to 140/89. As a footnote, I also cold turkey alcohol, sodium,caffeine and sugar 10 days ago. Could this, coupled with the coversyl, make my body react this way? Help and Thx!!!!
27 January 2012, 22:22 UTCcomment by Sam Son
Ref: Don
What a prompt and down-to-earth response. It's much appreciated. You are extremely correct that you can do it yourself to bring your hypertension down if it's an essential one, of idiopathetic variety. You can be sure that with changes to your lifestyle, you CAN manage your problem which is not severe; neither was or is mine. Pill use is an easy way out and for the uninitiated, I think.
Yes, dieting is another - and caffeine will do it to you, but then it it good for your prostate, according to recent studies. Everything in moderation with lots of constitutionals, like walking.
All pills bring about side-effects, regardless; and affects some more than others for some reason. For me, it's the long term use that is disconcerting in case it dystrophies or atrophies the muscle tissues as renders us unable to walk steadily. I'm fine as I was athletic for 60 years in heavy duty judo and karate, water-skiing.
I'd still like to wean myself off Coversyl and stick to strict diet regimen and exercise. I'm feeling the crunch. It can be done. Like you, I wish I had thought of diet first, followed by exercise. With diuretic embedded in the Coversyl, one relieves 3-4 times a night and that's upsetting the sleep pattern.
Any ideas - how to? how gradual,over time? side effect? Thanks.
28 January 2012, 0:40 UTCcomment by Don
Thx Sam Son, I was only on the 4mg does for less than a month and I can't believe how bad I FELT. I thought before my first doc app I was in good shape and ate well, but quickly realized I wasn't! The withdrawal from drinking 1 glass a red wine a night for around 2 years to quitting cold turkey may have amplified the side effects of the meds. With caffeine, salt and sugar out the equation, my body must be reacting somewhat negatively. I'm hoping this passes quickly. Sounds like you are in good shape and appreciate your words. Hope things work out for you. Prayers with you my friend! I'll let you know how I feel in the next week off the meds. Yesterday felt great but today feel a little queezy with a little chest discomfort. Hopefully that passes too!
28 January 2012, 15:50 UTCcomment by Narendra
Dear Don,
Were you off salt completely? New reasarch shows it's equaly dangerous. Please google it to know the danger and talk to your doc about getting required salt. goodluck.
28 January 2012, 18:33 UTCcomment by Sam Son
Ref: Don, Narendra
I agree that one should consult one's physician as suggested by Narendra. If your BP were conditioned by some pathology (like renal problem, pulmonary, et al.) then you ought to. If your physician had ruled it out by a battery of tests, then exercise is your best alternative. That is what I would do.
I should consult because I've been on it for much longer than you, Don. 1 month is, to me, nothing to worry about weaning your medication off; this is my honest opinion.
I've seen a couple of friends who were crippled - literally with MS - by prescription-pill ovrdose that when hospitalized and bedridden, 80% of the pills were removed from use so that they recovered completely. Case sui generis or not, I can't say. This is what concerns me. If I continue medicating, what will become of me?
Another thing: I'd continue with my red wine. Consuming in moderation is not harmful. I drink decaf and do take salt occasionally. (Important too in minute quantity, but there are other less harmful sodiums)
Don, I've been told that I'm a worry wort. I don't think so but I'm meticulous in what I did on the job before retiring 15 years ago today. My problem is I think too much and can go sleepless about solving some non-essential problems: math, computer, name it. I read and think too much too.
I'm much better now at managing my "monkey mind." And I'm also resigned to my destiny, and do what is normally expected of a human being. But will happen will happen. My job is to reduce the odds. I gave up serious workout for 15 years which is very bad.
If only I were living in San Fran with our son instead of Ontario, Canada, I'd be out daily. I was a sun and surf man. I'm quite sedentary these days, in a manner of speaking.
You are fine, Don. You have no big issues; but, don't go cold turkey. Lead a healthy lifestyle. I don't drink or smoke, ever. But we do drink socially (rarely) when the occasion calls for it. We travel. Thank you so much for your very kind thought. Bless you.
Keep in touch too, mon ami!
29 January 2012, 2:01 UTCcomment by don
Thx Sam, It is comforting to know there are others out there suffering from similar issues. I have never had an episode of palpitations like the other night. I am glad the doc took me off the meds and hopefully my true lifestyle change will make the difference. I get around 1700mg of sodium a day through some fish and vegetables. No added salt to anything anymore. I know alcohol can contribute to the palpitations, but I have cut out everything else and really miss my glass of red wine. Have you ever had episodes of HP? I can now understand how millions of other people feel that are afflicted with this problem. Thx for your encouraging words. Just want to get back to normal. God bless you Sam. And good luck to you too.
29 January 2012, 4:14 UTCcomment by don
Hi Nerendra, I have just cut out additional salt to my diet. I try to get around 1400-1800 mg of sodium a day. If I am lower, I have a popcorn treat that only has 300mg of sodium for 3 cups. I have found that Apple Cider Vinegar works magic too. I have 2 tablespoons in water 3 times a day. I guess my dad was right. It has helped since my last episode of heart palpitations. Its amazing how much natural sodium there is in many fresh foods. I guess I was really eating poorly before. High Blood pressure does really open your eyes!! Thx for the advice.
29 January 2012, 15:26 UTCcomment by Sam Son
Hello and Good mornin'
I will list a few books that are really enlightening that speaks to natural remedies. I got them while in SF at Barnes&Noble that I'm sure are readily accessible anywhere. It's upstairs shelved away and occasional dusted off ghost turds for reference.
Thank the Good Lord, I've been very well all my life. A few years ago, in order to supplement or complement my 4GB Coversyl, I was put on diuretic pill. On the 4th day, I suffered what you did - extreme palpitation and dizziness. I drove to the hospital who checked me out and found I was fine, as everything checked out. I mentioned I was on this particular pill (name eludes me). The triage nurse and doc said that would not do. It did and I read about it which tells me we all react differently. I stopped taking it forthwith and for years now, I have no issue - ABSOLUTELY nil. That was my first and last experience.
My wife is a retired OR-OBS-Geriatric RN who is a stickler on diet and exercise (brisk walking for her). She discarded estrogen-progesterone although her doc swore she had to be in for life. She replaced this HRT with soy milk. She's in excellent health too. We live on grains and nuts for breakfast (unprocessed granola, ground flexseeds, sunflower seeds, almond, name it and natural ASTRO plain ygurt with probiotic). Boring, but ... daily green salad (spinach, avocado, olive or omega oil for dressing, and I'm told cold-press coconut oil for memory retention - mine is uber excellent in dotage, so to speak). No white rice, wheat grain bread and not whole wheat. Fish daily or good or bad? Occasional meat for meat protein. The list goes on, Don
Do stay tuned as there's so much we learn from "mere" chat. Got to be careful to not take all we read on the internet as gospel as it can jeopadise our well-being (health included). To me, common sense is the way to go, but this can only come with weighing pros and cons and a storehouse of knowledge. Am I right? I learn daily from everyone, anyone.
Take care and where are you, Sir - whereabouts without being specific? Please understand that I'm only offering my points of view from my own experience reinforced by some reading. Take care, and God bless.
Do not be worried unnecessarily. Do not worry at all, PERIOD. What is, is what is; and what will be, will be. Nothing can change that.
29 January 2012, 15:44 UTCcomment by Sam Son
Sorry, I should explain whatI meant by "nothing can change that." Nothing can change the fact that you will still be worrying. My fingers worked faster than my mind could outrun them. And so, E&OE for sure. My agologies.
Thank you.
29 January 2012, 20:19 UTCcomment by don
Hi Sam, I live just south of Winnipeg in Manitoba, Canada. I really took your words to heart(pardon the pun!!!) I know some must be on meds to live but the fact that I was on coversyl for only a month and although my bp was higher, I have never have had an episode like the other night. I guess that is what scared me so much. And then this morning with the numb arm, tingling face and racing heart, I am sure allot of this I brought upon myself. The brain is such a powerful "beast". If you let something consume you, it will if you allow it. Trying several home remedies(apple cider vinegar along with a low sodium/low fat diet. Even tried some acupressure on my wrist and repeated deep breathing exercises. I need to get back to my old self. This is no way to live. I think this will pass but will require positive re-reinforcement and chatting with people like you. You do have a calming effect that my GP just doesn't have. Thx again for your time. You do not know how much I appreciate it. Will chat soon.
30 January 2012, 13:53 UTCcomment by Sam Son
Hello Don,
Glad to know that we are compatriots and have common interests, one of which being "kitbitzing" as we often do at Timmie's among ourselves. TH is spreading like wildfire, a Canadian icon. Thanks for being supportive.
By the way, I brought up diuretic that brought me down (odd paradox); so I was put on Coverysl Plus - the 'plus' is the additional built-in diuretic component of l mg. Don't get me wrong, Don. Coversyl has been very good, and I'm monitored yearly with bloodwork, et al. It is the long term use that is worrisome and I feel as if I'm beginning to feel the onset. If my muscles don't ache and groan (my side effects), I'd continue. If it had bothered me from the start, I'd have dropped it.
For me, it's a question of balancing the need to keep my (moderate) pressure down and that of maintaining my muscle strength. One has to prevail. If I'm honest and ready to take on my lazy ways, I'd say, "Drop my pill, eat well and exercise." The continous and consistent exercise alone will take care of the BP. My already good diet will reinforce the results. What do you think, Don? Does it not comport with pure logic? It's only BP that's not way out of wack, debilitating or a health risk unless we let it go compltely unchecked. Stay calma and collected and do not panic. The vertigo I had and arrythmia I had was disconerting. It went after a day when I discarded the pill, not the Coversyl.
It's too soon for me to say, Don. I'm starting to wean off mine faster than I should (I supposed) and I feel a lot, lot stronger. This works for me, and I'm not advising anyone to emulate. Too soon - but at the same time, I have to make sure it does not adversely affect my BP and if it does: exercise or go back on pill. As I said, if only our climate were not this harsh and I'm no winter sportsman to love it. I will let you know, my friend.
If you think acupressure, you might think of acupuncture many resort to. Qi-gong or T'ai chi will calm us down; but I was too used to more violent forms of martial arts. At my age, the former work best.
Don, here are the two books that I believe in; the authors seem to have a handle on the subject of Cholesterol, Blood Sugar and BP that make sense from my wide reading. My conclusion is that all three are interrelated. Cause-effect tocause back to effect interfacing one another.
Very well done as a natural, alternative, lighter way to health than allopathic pill and more pill-popping that do have a place in the world of Western medicine. It depends on the etiology of the disease that only medical specialist know best. We know when our body is not up to speed regardless who else is considering our case. Right?
Enough said. Here are the 3 books from Chapters or Indigo. Got from Barnes and Noble in San Fran. Google the title and look at the ISBN.
Prevent, Halt and Reverse Heart Disease (Piscatella and Franklin)
The New Glucose Revolution for Diabetes (Brand-Miller, Foster-Powell, et al.
What Your Doctor May Not Tell You about Cholesterol (Devries with Conkling)
Well, I hope something good comes out of our dialogue. Good luck with His blessings. All the titles and authors' names have been truncated. Google for more detailed information please. Take good care.
30 January 2012, 14:36 UTCcomment by Sam Son
Don,
I also read Sabik whose advice consists mainly in our seeing our prescribing physicians. He's right. But I tend to surmise situations on the basis of how they are resolved by me for me, barring other "possible" negative side effects that might aise from my own decision.
I don't know. All I know is that we have to learn to regain control of our own body. If we are seriously ill, then you MUST seek professional help and advice from not just ONE physician. This is the rule.
Visit your bookstores and browse around for the books I suggested. Try Amazon.com for used version if you like. I found the contents very insightful and enlightening, perhaps a no-brainer to some. They make total sense.
But I already was on the kind of diets recommended because of my dear wife's insistence. The books are an added bonus with more tips than I can handle thus far.
Good luck, neighbor. Keep well and smiling, the best medicine.
